Addressing the Issue of the Keyboard Extension

@FishNotADish2 said in #30:
> @Linspiring
> At higher ultra bullet levels Normaly people play more defensive and pretty unagresssively so multi premoves will save the person a lot of time in the begging and block other players making them run out of time (because it will go Imedietly so can’t make other players turn have much time).
Oh, I will take your word for it since I am totally a non ultra bullet player. On the few times I've played bullet, I've been caught with premove punishing tricks lol.

Nah I just watched higher ub games.

The biggest problem with KB is it works like random move generator. You can just hold all your keys on keyboard while quickly moving your mouse over the chessboard. Keyboard generates around 30 moves per second (real number depends on how fast you move your mouse over the random squares). First legal move spotted by lichess will be executed as premove. It really helps winning in ultra time scrambles. You just make moves you didn't even think about without even looking at the board.

KB is the million-monkey-theorem coded in an app. You press all the buttons simultaneously and in an infinite time there will be the immortal game.

The players don’t even know what they move…

There are a lot of ways to stop that.
You can setup that every move takes a min. time.
0,2 sec may be good. You cant do faster than that.
You reset the stack after every move.
So the lichess will only takes moves that came AFTER the opponent did his move.
You can deaktivate unicode while every bullet game.

But be prepaired. You start a game you cant win.
The next may be sound addons?
You do not see, but you can hear your success or dangerous?
Addons that will ping a command as often as it is done?

You cant stop people with the wish to to this things.
You stop one and there will be 5 others.

Must lichess do such a lot work for about 2%-3% of user who want to play this kind of chess?
Is it not enough to hunt for the some cheaters?
I really cant answer that, but I have learnt you cant stop it ...
Poeple training theirself are able to do amazing things and they want to do so ....

EDit:
I mean you have to learn the same lessons all other games, which where "hip" online learnt.
There is no white game.
Its all bla bla until there is a hard device like a vid or a real otb game.
You see a feature, others look for the unexpected use to benefit in an unexpected way.
Cheater, Specialists and "hopefullies" are groupanimals. You can say what you want, the group is close and will not hear anything.
80% of the people just do the game and do not want to know about this things.
take it or leave it
;-P
Maybe in one or two years the internet will discuss the question "Is Classic World Champion Magnus Carlsen better than the Ultrabullet World Champion "XX" or killed esports the online chess?

@A_0123456 Nicely put, good work.

P.S. Please add the point KB users are playing multi-choice premoves and that really does go against the spirit of a 1 move chess site.

@RickRenegade said in #36:
> @A_0123456 Nicely put, good work.
>
> P.S. Please add the point KB users are playing multi-choice premoves and that really does go against the spirit of a 1 move chess site.

Thanks! It looks like the idea of multi-choice mutli-mlve premoves in kb and keyboard spam has already been added by the entirety of the discussion by now though, so there's no need to mention it again.

@Firegoat7 said in #10:
> To be honest Lichess is a wonderful open source project.
>
> Ethically it seems that KB usage is only real for a certain group of people. I didn't even know it existed until I heard GM Andrew Tang mention it in his stream. I would guess that most people don't know the first thing about it. Therefore ethically it seems at odds with what Lichess is trying to create. An honest enjoyable openly transparent chess experience for everyone across the globe.
>
> At the very minimum opponents of KB users should know that they are playing against a KB user. If you don't want to ban KB usage at least allow other people to know that they are playing against a KB user. This transparent open sharing of knowledge allows others to make their own ethically informed decisions.

I too learned about this controversy through GM Andrew Tang when completely unable to catch up in the August Marathon Tournament (good news is that he went over to the titled tournament and won with GM Magnus Carlson at 2nd). These suggestions makes sense (especially since lichess doesn’t want to get rid of the extension), if not ban the extension, they should at least make it possible to know that your opponent is using it. I would go further and say if the extension stays, then the extension users will not be allowed to participate in tournaments & rated games as long as the feature is active. That would ensure that fair play is still occurring and it would keep lichess true to it’s ideals of not requiring people to download things in order to use their free, ad-free & open source platform.

@mburg33

When did lichess say they don’t want to get rid of the keyboard exstension?

It feels more like they can’t, and yes these features should be implemented. I mean it’s fair to at least be able to choose if your opponent has an advantage. But the question is how to implement this

@mburg33 I don't think it's like Lichess doesn't want kb to go. Lichess is unwilling to give an opinion on kb and they have been like that for a while. This was especially because a considerable portion of the playerbase used to think that kb was legal, even a good amount of non-kb users, so trying to stop kb would have been disastrous potentially. However, as we have looked more closely into the issue and as more players have quit ultrabullet due to the unfairness of kb, public opinion seems to have shifted - and rightfully so.

At least that's what I've heard so far since my time on the forums (since December 2019)