If you ask for a tb and then win, what kind of victory is that?
I ask for nothing and give nothing. Chess is a war.
I ask for nothing and give nothing. Chess is a war.
Its a win dictated by chess skill, not a random mishap. Chess is not war: its a game played by two humans, who can choose to be decent or not. I guess many choose some meaningless rating and a tainted "win" over decency. I think that is a poor reflection of character.
Why do you insist on putting the fault of a player's error on his opponent? If a player makes a preventable mistake, that is ON HIM. Stop blaming his opponent for not handing him an eraser in the middle of a competition.
I only fault people for their own actions. Slips will happen, and then it is up to people how they react to that. I want to win fairly and due to my own skill at CHESS, not mousing ability! There are plenty of things you could go play to prove your superior mousing skills. I am not sure why you think chess is a good place for that, but to each their own.
#44 Audon99 I actually symphatize with many of your opinions and the reasons for it, but in practial play it won't work like that. People are not that generous and grant you takebacks for slips.
Also sometimes it is very difficult to judge if it was a slip or not. If you don't believe it was a slip and decline takeback, your opponent might think you are such a big asshole that you say other players are because you didn't believe it was a slip. Maybe he in fact slipped. What are your ideas about such an issue?
Therefore rules are needed and not respecting them is wrong I think. In the long run it would equalize because you might also win on slips from others. Not respecting the rules can also be seen by many players as bad behaviour even if the rules sometimes are "unfair" Your reasonin seems pretty much like a tennios player want a ball to not count because he "slipped" with his rocket. The point is that in the long run such things would equalize. You can play more than one game against same players.
Since you are such a fair, generous and broad-minded person I assume you don't harass players that don't grant you takeback.
Also sometimes it is very difficult to judge if it was a slip or not. If you don't believe it was a slip and decline takeback, your opponent might think you are such a big asshole that you say other players are because you didn't believe it was a slip. Maybe he in fact slipped. What are your ideas about such an issue?
Therefore rules are needed and not respecting them is wrong I think. In the long run it would equalize because you might also win on slips from others. Not respecting the rules can also be seen by many players as bad behaviour even if the rules sometimes are "unfair" Your reasonin seems pretty much like a tennios player want a ball to not count because he "slipped" with his rocket. The point is that in the long run such things would equalize. You can play more than one game against same players.
Since you are such a fair, generous and broad-minded person I assume you don't harass players that don't grant you takeback.
@blackzombie
Sure, in the long run my policy of giving takebacks for slips actually hurts me, because many people refuse takebacks when I slip, and I always give takebacks for clear slips. I accept that because I think it is better to be sportsmanlike.
In situations where a slip isn't obvious, I neither ask nor give takebacks. I don't have a strong reaction for either choice in those situations though. It is a judgement call, which can be difficult, but that's life.
I don't think tennis:chess is a good analogy. Tennis is a physical sport. Control over your body is not just necessary but it is a key tenet of the sport. Therefore, slips there are just playing poorly. Chess is a mental sport. Releasing your mouse button a fraction of a centimeter too soon is not a defining skill for chess. Mistakes in chess are widely thought of as miscalculation or poor strategy, not mousing skills. If someone is more prone to mouse slips than I am, I don't think that means I am therefore better at chess. If someone is more clumsy than me and falls a lot in tennis, I would think I am better at tennis.
I often call an opponent who won't give a takeback a poor sport. I also always thank a person who gives a takeback that is clearly warranted. I don't think keeping my opinion to myself is necessary to be "fair, generous, and broad-minded." I will admit that I take it too far on occasion if I am having a bad day. That is not good behavior, but unfortunately it is very human.
Sure, in the long run my policy of giving takebacks for slips actually hurts me, because many people refuse takebacks when I slip, and I always give takebacks for clear slips. I accept that because I think it is better to be sportsmanlike.
In situations where a slip isn't obvious, I neither ask nor give takebacks. I don't have a strong reaction for either choice in those situations though. It is a judgement call, which can be difficult, but that's life.
I don't think tennis:chess is a good analogy. Tennis is a physical sport. Control over your body is not just necessary but it is a key tenet of the sport. Therefore, slips there are just playing poorly. Chess is a mental sport. Releasing your mouse button a fraction of a centimeter too soon is not a defining skill for chess. Mistakes in chess are widely thought of as miscalculation or poor strategy, not mousing skills. If someone is more prone to mouse slips than I am, I don't think that means I am therefore better at chess. If someone is more clumsy than me and falls a lot in tennis, I would think I am better at tennis.
I often call an opponent who won't give a takeback a poor sport. I also always thank a person who gives a takeback that is clearly warranted. I don't think keeping my opinion to myself is necessary to be "fair, generous, and broad-minded." I will admit that I take it too far on occasion if I am having a bad day. That is not good behavior, but unfortunately it is very human.
Well, a tennis-player can get the sunlight in his/her eyes or by other means be distracted by outer circumstances that isn't necessarily part of the game but such things would equalize in the long run.
Insisting on not following the rules, requiring exceptions for lots of things can also be seen by many players as bad sport and pretty mean, captious...
Resigning and playing a new game could then be more fair.
Insisting on not following the rules, requiring exceptions for lots of things can also be seen by many players as bad sport and pretty mean, captious...
Resigning and playing a new game could then be more fair.
What rules are you talking about? Lichess allows takebacks to happen. There is no rule against them. Mouse slips are a phenomenon only in online chess, so citing a lack of takebacks in FIDE or something is nonsense, and lichess doesn't always follow FIDE rules anyway. Also who said anything about requiring exceptions for lots of things? I am talking about a specific circumstance where people can choose to be sportsmanlike or not. I don't care so much about a specific outcome of a game. I care about the ethical considerations, so resigning and playing a new game(which is not always possible anyway) is not a solution.
But there is nothing in lichess rules that require anyone to grant takebacks...
To be honest I doubt your problem has anything to do with sportsmanship, fairness or ethics or chess at all. I think it's more related to your personality,:)
To be honest I doubt your problem has anything to do with sportsmanship, fairness or ethics or chess at all. I think it's more related to your personality,:)
@Audon99
Slips only happen when you are careless. There are safeguards in place to prevent a user from completing a move they did not intend to make. It is up to you to utilize them, but if you don't, don't blame your opponent.
Slips only happen when you are careless. There are safeguards in place to prevent a user from completing a move they did not intend to make. It is up to you to utilize them, but if you don't, don't blame your opponent.
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