Magnus is turning into a Bobby Fischer??
This is so obscene! Magnus has been doing stuff like this for a long time -- just randomly being rude and throwing stuff -- unable to contain himself he throws a fit of rage more often than not when he loses; completely lambasts people. Has he ever said "Good game" to someone once? Has he ever done anything to engender good will?
The thing is -- You can see him in streams and as someone else mentioned, "Time cheating" or having friends mention when you are getting low on your clock, this is definitely cheating in itself; and he does so very casually. In a Banter Blitz stream one time, he uses an expletive (No big deal, really), but then says something very revealing: "It's probably against the rules, but I'll probably get away with it. I usually do."
Not that the comment or anything, just revealing of his attitude. His remarks against Hans 2 weeks ago were *Extremely* out of line and egregious, and this further act of rudeness is really unthinkable. It's gaslighting in the worst way. Petty, obscene, destructive. Very shameful and quite sad. At the very least, perhaps the benefit is there that this will help others to see the downside of such behavior. The toxicity of gaslighting has literally 0 place in the chess world, but it's been such a mainstay for almost the entire history of chess.
The inanity and lack of sense of it is extreme: based on the premise that hostility is somehow beneficial or good in any way, it takes the stance that one should be *as hostile* as possibly permitted. This is obscene and quite opposite to the purpose of having rules. Rules for decency and treatment individuals do not mean that one should, somehow, act in absolute fervor in completion without breaking the rules.
Carlsen owes Hans two apologies and more. Hopefully this toxicity from the "Bad boy of chess" will end up being a benefit (in that such hostility and gaslighting are seen finally for the idiocy that they are), and in the meantime, hopefully Magnus will attain to some slight measure of human courtesy.
Good job to Hans for fighting this rude and awful onslaught of kow-towing insulters. Best wishes to all.
The thing is -- You can see him in streams and as someone else mentioned, "Time cheating" or having friends mention when you are getting low on your clock, this is definitely cheating in itself; and he does so very casually. In a Banter Blitz stream one time, he uses an expletive (No big deal, really), but then says something very revealing: "It's probably against the rules, but I'll probably get away with it. I usually do."
Not that the comment or anything, just revealing of his attitude. His remarks against Hans 2 weeks ago were *Extremely* out of line and egregious, and this further act of rudeness is really unthinkable. It's gaslighting in the worst way. Petty, obscene, destructive. Very shameful and quite sad. At the very least, perhaps the benefit is there that this will help others to see the downside of such behavior. The toxicity of gaslighting has literally 0 place in the chess world, but it's been such a mainstay for almost the entire history of chess.
The inanity and lack of sense of it is extreme: based on the premise that hostility is somehow beneficial or good in any way, it takes the stance that one should be *as hostile* as possibly permitted. This is obscene and quite opposite to the purpose of having rules. Rules for decency and treatment individuals do not mean that one should, somehow, act in absolute fervor in completion without breaking the rules.
Carlsen owes Hans two apologies and more. Hopefully this toxicity from the "Bad boy of chess" will end up being a benefit (in that such hostility and gaslighting are seen finally for the idiocy that they are), and in the meantime, hopefully Magnus will attain to some slight measure of human courtesy.
Good job to Hans for fighting this rude and awful onslaught of kow-towing insulters. Best wishes to all.
It looks like Magnus is enthusiastically digging his own grave. After this he needs to come up with something very convincing and silence is no longer an option. Whatever the end result of this will be is not going to be pretty. Even if he's right about Hans cheating, this has had to be handled differently. He's doing very real damage to the chess world.
@ohcomeon_1 said in #13:
> He's doing very real damage to the chess world.
How is he doing damage to the "chess world"?
How do you define the "chess world"?
How do you damage an abstraction?
> He's doing very real damage to the chess world.
How is he doing damage to the "chess world"?
How do you define the "chess world"?
How do you damage an abstraction?
What a few people are missing is that even if Nieman is 'guilty', in no way would Carlsen's behaviour be justified.
Refusing to associate with people of low moral character (Hans)
is justified in the eyes of people of high moral character (Magnus, myself).
is justified in the eyes of people of high moral character (Magnus, myself).
@irollthenickels said in #14:
> How is he doing damage to the "chess world"?
>
> How do you define the "chess world"?
>
> How do you damage an abstraction?
Ah so we're at this point?
How do you define "how"?
How do you define "doing"?
How do you define "damage"?
How do you define "define"?
Hiw do you define "abstraction"?
You lose.
> How is he doing damage to the "chess world"?
>
> How do you define the "chess world"?
>
> How do you damage an abstraction?
Ah so we're at this point?
How do you define "how"?
How do you define "doing"?
How do you define "damage"?
How do you define "define"?
Hiw do you define "abstraction"?
You lose.
@irollthenickels said in #14:
> How is he doing damage to the "chess world"?
>
> How do you define the "chess world"?
>
> How do you damage an abstraction?
The chess world is the community of all chess players and fans.
Carlsen is doing damage to the chess world by robbing us of a fair chess competition and ruining trust in the mechanism we have for detecting cheating and finally by misbehaving while being the one chess player the kids most look up to.
> How is he doing damage to the "chess world"?
>
> How do you define the "chess world"?
>
> How do you damage an abstraction?
The chess world is the community of all chess players and fans.
Carlsen is doing damage to the chess world by robbing us of a fair chess competition and ruining trust in the mechanism we have for detecting cheating and finally by misbehaving while being the one chess player the kids most look up to.
irollthennickels:
Problem with that line of thinking is that it makes you the judge and arbitrator of all. This might work on an anonymous internet but it's very unwise to pursue in reality.
Problem with that line of thinking is that it makes you the judge and arbitrator of all. This might work on an anonymous internet but it's very unwise to pursue in reality.
@gravling said in #18:
> The chess world is the community of all chess players and fans.
>
> Carlsen is doing damage to the chess world by robbing us of a fair chess competition and ruining trust in the mechanism we have for detecting cheating and finally by misbehaving while being the one chess player the kids most look up to.
Well I am a chess player and a chess fan, and i don't feel damaged at all.
I don't feel I've been robbed of a fair chess competition, I still trust the mechanism for detecting cheating, and I don't feel like Magnus is misbehaving.
I feel like you are exaggerrating the importance of what has occurred. Magnus Just doesn't trust Hans. It's not that deep. Everything is still ok. We're all going to be fine.
> The chess world is the community of all chess players and fans.
>
> Carlsen is doing damage to the chess world by robbing us of a fair chess competition and ruining trust in the mechanism we have for detecting cheating and finally by misbehaving while being the one chess player the kids most look up to.
Well I am a chess player and a chess fan, and i don't feel damaged at all.
I don't feel I've been robbed of a fair chess competition, I still trust the mechanism for detecting cheating, and I don't feel like Magnus is misbehaving.
I feel like you are exaggerrating the importance of what has occurred. Magnus Just doesn't trust Hans. It's not that deep. Everything is still ok. We're all going to be fine.
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