"i feel like most of these comments are about the actual people that premove rather than the functionality itself -_-"
That reminds me of a saying... guns don't kill people. People kill people.
Not really bro. As far as I know they don't allow premove in real life bullet? Maybe someone can confirm. It's been awhile.
The rest of your logic doesn't follow. So moves made without knowing what your opponent will play (most of the time) = better chess?
The best players I've played never premove. Maybe at the very end. They do it by hand. Start to make their move just as their opponent is finishing his. That way if it is a bad move they can react. As far as I can tell anyway.
@vomere - don't kid yourself, the best players you've played ALL premove. Premove is not just about making moves based on guesses on what your opponent will do (or worse, moving randomly), they are about saving time for FORCED moves. Nearly every strong player will premove forced moves (like recaptures)... if the capture does not happen, nothing lost, if it does, time saved. To not use this in bullet would be madness.
For the record, I was kidding about pawns moving backward (surprise!). I'm actually in favor of multiple premoves, because the only way I ever win a game of chess is by running the opponent out of time. This feature sounds useful.
@Goldilocks. For example, I used to play at instantchess. The best player I played there by far at bullet was Chievis. Master level player. Had many great games with him. He won nearly all. No pre move at that site.
He is an amazing player. Anyways, I made that assertion about pre moving because when a player premoves too much I sac a piece. And here about 2300+ seem to always take it i.e. they haven't made a pre move. Same goes for at many chess sites. Others do it as well.
To your second point. I thought that went without saying. They don't use it as religiously as lower rated is what I mean.
For instance, with lower rated you can sac a piece more often and they've premoved somewhere else and you're up. Happens much less often at higher level bullet.
@Vomere - then I agree - I rarely use premove, but use it almost always for forced moves... I use 'hover' move mostly (have the piece hanging above where you want to put it) - likely the case with strong players too.
I also don't buy the argument about multiple premoves meaning better chess. On it's face it's counter intuative for a couple reasons. One, you're cramming a higher number of premoves into the same one minute game. Common sense would tell you that number of premoves crammed into the same finite one minute would be inversely proportional to the quality and thoughtfulness of play. Also, just as having a single premove changes the strategy somewhat, eg the surprise crazy sac as described above, likewise having multiple premoves would change it even further. You'd start going for strategies specifically tailored to multiple premoves that allow you to have lots of chained together promoves which would make the game even less like a good classical game.
As I said earlier I like the single promove because it's a good reasonable compromise between having no premoves and going nuts with 5 or 10. I don't even want to think of the headache it would be to try to reform a chain of 5-10 premoves every time one chain is cancelled when there are just a few seconds left in the game. It would become too crazy intense and detract from the enjoyment of the game. As someone aptly put it in this thread, it would turn the great game of chess into some kind of arcade game.
alright one last comment, then I'm done cause arguing about this is pointless at this point. otb chess is not the same as online chess. with or without premoves you can still move almost instantaneously.
uncrownedroyalty. you rarely play bullet, which is probably why you don't understand how more premoves results in more time for the player. why argue against something that won't be too beneficial in long games / won't be used by or against you? just because you don't like low rated players that move fast or randomly and beat you on time doesn't mean you should ruin the functionality for the rest of us. with or without multiple premoves low rated (and often high rated) 1 min games will most likely end in chaotic wins on time.
also when you talk about "reform[ing] a chain of 5-10 premoves with a couple seconds left": this is not what would be happening whatsoever, and it just confirms you don't really know how to effectively use them or don't understand how they help.
premoves and 1 min games go hand in hand, and it would completely destroy 1 min chess to remove them. the people who play many bullet games know this, and should be the ones commenting, not people who don't enjoy fast games and never play them.
peace out, feel free to challenge me to a bullet or 960 game!!
I agree that it's a bit of a dead horse at the moment, but I would like to point out that while it would take a lot of adjusting for those of us used to it, removing premoves would absolutely not "completely destroy" 1 minute chess. A bit hyperbolic, for sure :)
As another poster has pointed out earlier, I've played 1-minute on sites where there was no premove (including a few without premove here, just for kicks), and it's still largely the same game.
The biggest difference, really, is that the frantic time scrambles with both players <5 seconds just don't last as many moves, which is fine by me, as that's the silliest part of the game anyway.
Like goldilocks said, I too rarely use premove itself, opting for hovering with a piece over a destination square, since I can take that back if my opponent makes a surprising move that makes it a blunder.
The most extensive use of premoves is on recaptures and the circus at <5 seconds, where people start intentionally hanging things.
Losing the former is not that big a deal, and losing the latter is a matter of taste. For some, that's the most exhilarating, entertaining part of the game. For others, it's the most annoying.
Salt to taste :)
Either way, without premove, the same players will be the best at 1 minute, and games will just be slightly shorter in number of moves on average. That's all.
*kicks the dead horse*
To me (with the disclaimer that I'm not a bullet player but I've watched some streams because they are exciting) I don't see the logic behind multiple premoves. A single premove is enough to effectively make a forced move or recapture in <1s. Having multiple options available in the position means you have to premove the most likely and prepare for the next likely alternative with a hover. That doesn't seem like much different than clicking multiple moves out in such a short amount of time, so I'm not sure how this would somehow extend options in a game unless the opponent is already taking a lot of clock to make their choice...in which case it will probably be an unexpected choice anyway.
And if we're talking about chaining premoves (as some people seem to be even though that wasn't the actual request presented in the thread), that just seems even more ludicrous to me. Even in forced lines an opponent could opt to break you by playing a theoretically inaccurate move simply counting on the fact you have premoved the forcing line already, causing your premoved response to be a blunder, or maybe even multiple blunders if you don't cancel the chain in time. Thus the premove chain idea would just lead to bad chess, not better chess.
I guess maybe we'll see if in another month when this thread inevitably comes around again someone has better logic to rationalize the work necessary to code something this complicated.