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Rating difference between two chess sites

@Noflaps said in #10:
> But getting back to what I did say

The sites are measuring the same thing, so to the question: "how many kilometers is five miles?" your answer is "five miles is more running than four miles, and less running than six, but do not be overly concerned about the distance lest I judge you unenlightened" to which the response must be "that is no answer at all, Noflaps".
@sammgus tells me that "my" answer (according to him) is "five miles is more running than four miles, and less running than six, but do not be overly concerned about the distance lest I judge you unenlightened."

That is not remotely what I said. So when he goes on to say "that is no answer at all, Noflaps," he should, instead, have said "that is no answer that you actually provided, Noflaps."

If you are going to try to put me in my place, @sammgus, for whatever reason you find that important, I suggest you first determine the actual location of my place. Inventing words and putting them in quotation marks, and pretending that I said them, will not move you closer to that location.

Let me try again: Let us say that Lichess rates somebody -- let's call him "Bob" for convenience (since it's easy to type) -- and provides him with a rating of 1900.

Let us say that Bob then tries chess.com, and finds his rating there to be only 1700 (this is hypothetical -- a mere thought experiment).

Why might that NOT be cause for worry, or even modest concern? Is that possible? Should he use that difference to prefer one site over the other?

I will not try to speak for you, @sammgus. But if I were Bob, the rating difference between those two sites (or any two sites) would not concern me. But why not? Because ratings, from wherever they start, are internally consistent at the particular site at which they are established. Why? Because a site has its own rating calculation algorithm and its own ratings pool.

And those things can be different as between different sites. But at any one site, they remain consistent for THAT SITE over time -- sometimes even over a long, long time.

And BECAUSE OF THAT, they can be used to determine PROGRESS (or the lack thereof) consistently. And that is how ratings are most genuinely useful, for most.

So, if Bob works hard at Lichess and sees his rating jump from 1900 to 2090, he will have attained 110 percent of his former rating! Great job, Bob!

But what if Bob checked out his new rating at chess.com (hypothetically speaking, of course). And -- oh, no! oh, no! -- it is merely 1870! Indeed, it is still lower than his rating at Lichess -- even his INITIAL rating at Lichess! Should Bob be upset?

Well, I must ask: why should he care? Does it matter? I wouldn't matter to me, if I were Bob. Is that because I am "enlightened" as you appear to think I am saying? No. Not at all. I do not claim enlightenment. My relatives know better.

Here's why I wouldn't care: It's because our hypothetical increase at chess.com, from 1700 to 1870, STILL SHOWS -- JUST AS WELL -- that Bob has improved to 110 percent of his former level. Great job, Bob! (The same great job).

So, in other words, "absolute" ratings at any one internet playing site don't seem to be of any real importance outside of that one site. And the ratings at ANY site can be useful to show improvement (or, we hope not, decline). And that is the most practical and helpful use for ratings that there is, is it not? (Unless one is a professional player who can use higher ratings to enhance his career prospects -- but even such players use ratings from FIDE, or perhaps a national rating, to do that).

So, my real "place" -- and perhaps you will join me there -- is this: rating differences between internet playing sites aren't as important as they might seem at first glance. And a Lichess rating can useful and helpful at Lichess, just as a chess.com rating can be useful and helpful at chess.com.

That's all I was attempting to say. And I wish I had used mathematics the first time to explain it, since math is a universal language that often adds clarity. Especially among intelligent, thoughtful people like I assume @sammgus to be, despite his apparent unhappiness with my earlier post.
@Noflaps said in #12:
> (lots of stuff)

After the overly flowery prose is removed, your objection is plainly false. Two different systems of measurement do not cause some unbridgeable duality and you could provide yourself with strong empirical evidence of this by wagering on an 800 rating Lichess player to go evenly against a 2200 chess dot com player. There is an answer to the OP's question, but rather than attempt to provide it you (mistakenly) objected to the question itself. Perhaps the objection was not important and was simply a reason to exercise your literary bent?

And the second allegation that there is no purpose to such comparison in any case, shows disrespect to the person who clearly did have a reason for the question, and perhaps betrays a lack of imagination as I can think of several scenarios in which it would be useful to take a foreign measurement and get a rough conversion into units with which I am familiar.
@Sammgus, you are fascinating. You say my "objection" is "plainly false."

Please quote my "objection." Seriously, pick out what you think I have said that is "objecting" to something, and quote me.

Please, though, this time quote my actual language. My words. Don't attempt to paraphrase me, put quotation marks around your own attempted paraphrase, and thereby pretend to quote me -- as you did last time.

I was articulating my LACK of objection to two different sites providing two different ratings. Somehow, I have still not managed to get that point across, despite spelling it out mathematically.

I'm sorry you seem upset. I mean you no harm. And I take no offense.
@sammgus said in #6:
> Lichess ratings start at 1500 and this is supposedly the average rating of players.
> Chess.com starts at 1200 but the average varies.
>
> From my experience, the 300 rating difference mostly holds up to 1900, so I would say 1900 here is roughly 1650 at chess.com.

Uhh.. average on CDC is around 650 on the standard chess variants. Your stats are from 2020.
@DrHack said in #17:
> Uhh.. average on CDC is around 650 on the standard chess variants. Your stats are from 2020.

I didn't state the average for CDC. But as it is the first point of call for almost anyone trying out online chess, any average there entirely depends on which players are included. Separately, I think the answer I gave is pretty accurate though, are you suggesting it isn't?
@sammgus said in #6:
>Lichess ratings start at 1500 and this is supposedly the average rating of players.
>Chess.com starts at 1200 but the average varies.
>
>From my experience, the 300 rating difference mostly holds up to 1900, so I would say 1900 here is roughly 1650 at chess.com.

I also think the same

chess com 1600 = lichess 1900
@sammgus said in #18:
> I didn't state the average for CDC. But as it is the first point of call for almost anyone trying out online chess, any average there entirely depends on which players are included. Separately, I think the answer I gave is pretty accurate though, are you suggesting it isn't?

I think they used to start at 1200. I've had people reporting to me that they were forced to start at a 400 rating recently, which is crushing the average rating on the site. I googled average ratings and found some old threads with screen shots of CDC average rating at 1200 several years ago when people were added to the system at 1200.

So yeah, I think you might be out dated on the 1200 number. Not attacking you bro, just tying to get the right information out there. CDC's rating system is getting wrecked this year and what was true yesterday might not be true tomorrow over there.

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