@Sacmaniac said in #39:
> That's some interesting math @Ganjman #28 and if anywhere near correct I'd probably just quit playing online chess.
>
> However, you lost credibility by your statement to "Research Flat Earth". And I'd suggest spell check too.
>
> I'm not saying that you are wrong, the Earth could indeed be flat, I haven't been to the known boundaries to verify this claim. However, how does dwelling on this serve you?
>
> The governments of the world have already freely admitted that they are in collusion to coerce their population by threat of violence if they don't pay taxes. Do we really need the details after they have already confessed?
>
> Instead of rehashing JFK, 9/11, Flat Earth, Moon Landing or Santa Claus, and offering no solutions, how about we try to eliminate violence against children by their parents and use the moral argument of the non aggression principle?
Anyway to further elaborate on what you are saying is this. What motivates people? It is called MICE. Money Ideology Conscience Ego. Some cheat for prize money sure. Ideology, perhaps they believe it is their right to win at all costs whatever. Conscience. Maybe some might not cheat because they feel it is morally wrong. Or some do because they feel that everyone is morally depraved and seeking to win illegitimately, and thus cheat back. Ego. Win just to be a winner.
Or what motivates someone not to cheat using this acronym? Money. Earning money legit so as to not get in trouble for fraud. Perhaps. Ideology. Their belief system is against unfair advantages perhaps? Conscience. They know it is morally wrong to cheat, and would not want some to cheat in games against them so therefore they choose not to cheat. Ego. Perhaps they don't cheat because they don't want to be known as a cheater, and maybe they want to learn how to play for real, and not care about some stupid little numbers near the side of their fake name.
Now comes game theory. The first thing a game theorist assumes is that everyone is selfish. Everyone wants to win at all costs. We are talking in the sense of the zero sum game. Which Chess is a zero sum game. There is only a winner or a loser, or a draw. But no one wins in a draw, unless we are talking about rating points, then it makes sense to force a draw against a higher rated opponent. We talk about the Nash equilibrium. It is safe to say that in online chess where there are no consequences other than a ban from which you could make a new account and come back to cheat again, there is very little to dissuade one from using the computer for a little assistance. So there is a risk factor of losing your account, and having to start over again. A minor inconvenience for most. The Nash Equilibrium would be to assume that every player cheats because it is their best strategy to win.
If you cheat and they don't, you win guaranteed. If you don't cheat and they do, then you are guaranteed to lose. If you cheat and they cheat, then it is up to the strength of the engine being used, along with opening book selection, and endgame tablebase. So which has the best payout for the player? To cheat. You will win by cheating guaranteed if the other player doesn't cheat, and if they do, it is the only chance you have to beat them when they are cheating, as you would not stand a chance to beat them out of your own mind.
But people like you and I do not wish to go online and play computers we can't beat, if that were so, we would just play stockfish and forgo playing online altogether. But then there is that 20% chance of a real game and for that reason it is worth it to stomach out the losses and play on. But that is at blitz time controls. You fair better to play a human at super fast bullet time controls because they will need a bot to play for them which the site can detect easily and ban or to engage in a really long time control to get the impatient cheaters out of the way. So you increase your odds of playing a human by staying out of the time controls where the cheaters reside. Then the game has some value, and for that reason is a good reason not to cheat. Not to mention if you do take a loss to a cheater, you still learned about your own weaknesses so it is really a win win if you look at it from that perspective.
Anyhow. research flat earth! You will find it to be round. Have a nice day.
> That's some interesting math @Ganjman #28 and if anywhere near correct I'd probably just quit playing online chess.
>
> However, you lost credibility by your statement to "Research Flat Earth". And I'd suggest spell check too.
>
> I'm not saying that you are wrong, the Earth could indeed be flat, I haven't been to the known boundaries to verify this claim. However, how does dwelling on this serve you?
>
> The governments of the world have already freely admitted that they are in collusion to coerce their population by threat of violence if they don't pay taxes. Do we really need the details after they have already confessed?
>
> Instead of rehashing JFK, 9/11, Flat Earth, Moon Landing or Santa Claus, and offering no solutions, how about we try to eliminate violence against children by their parents and use the moral argument of the non aggression principle?
Anyway to further elaborate on what you are saying is this. What motivates people? It is called MICE. Money Ideology Conscience Ego. Some cheat for prize money sure. Ideology, perhaps they believe it is their right to win at all costs whatever. Conscience. Maybe some might not cheat because they feel it is morally wrong. Or some do because they feel that everyone is morally depraved and seeking to win illegitimately, and thus cheat back. Ego. Win just to be a winner.
Or what motivates someone not to cheat using this acronym? Money. Earning money legit so as to not get in trouble for fraud. Perhaps. Ideology. Their belief system is against unfair advantages perhaps? Conscience. They know it is morally wrong to cheat, and would not want some to cheat in games against them so therefore they choose not to cheat. Ego. Perhaps they don't cheat because they don't want to be known as a cheater, and maybe they want to learn how to play for real, and not care about some stupid little numbers near the side of their fake name.
Now comes game theory. The first thing a game theorist assumes is that everyone is selfish. Everyone wants to win at all costs. We are talking in the sense of the zero sum game. Which Chess is a zero sum game. There is only a winner or a loser, or a draw. But no one wins in a draw, unless we are talking about rating points, then it makes sense to force a draw against a higher rated opponent. We talk about the Nash equilibrium. It is safe to say that in online chess where there are no consequences other than a ban from which you could make a new account and come back to cheat again, there is very little to dissuade one from using the computer for a little assistance. So there is a risk factor of losing your account, and having to start over again. A minor inconvenience for most. The Nash Equilibrium would be to assume that every player cheats because it is their best strategy to win.
If you cheat and they don't, you win guaranteed. If you don't cheat and they do, then you are guaranteed to lose. If you cheat and they cheat, then it is up to the strength of the engine being used, along with opening book selection, and endgame tablebase. So which has the best payout for the player? To cheat. You will win by cheating guaranteed if the other player doesn't cheat, and if they do, it is the only chance you have to beat them when they are cheating, as you would not stand a chance to beat them out of your own mind.
But people like you and I do not wish to go online and play computers we can't beat, if that were so, we would just play stockfish and forgo playing online altogether. But then there is that 20% chance of a real game and for that reason it is worth it to stomach out the losses and play on. But that is at blitz time controls. You fair better to play a human at super fast bullet time controls because they will need a bot to play for them which the site can detect easily and ban or to engage in a really long time control to get the impatient cheaters out of the way. So you increase your odds of playing a human by staying out of the time controls where the cheaters reside. Then the game has some value, and for that reason is a good reason not to cheat. Not to mention if you do take a loss to a cheater, you still learned about your own weaknesses so it is really a win win if you look at it from that perspective.
Anyhow. research flat earth! You will find it to be round. Have a nice day.
